Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Do Neo-Nazi's Have Rights?

For a lot of reasons, this is a really weird thing for me to actually write about. Not so much because I'm discussing Nazi's, or the fact that I'm dealing with a really odd topic.

No, its because I'm asking if a group of American's actually do have rights.

Now, let me set something straight now: I'm not a fan of Neo-Nazi's. In my personal experience with them, they tend to be quiet. The last time I encountered one was at Ozzfest in 2008. One thing was clear; we both were there because of our love of the music, so personal hatreds and differences aside, that's all that mattered.

That being said, Neo-Nazi's still have rights... right?

On April 23rd, Murphy's Law played the Khyber here in Philly. On Tuesday the word was out around town that 3 men dressed in Nazi attire went to the show. Now, mind you, Murphy's Law has played around with Nazi imagery in the past, but they haven't touched it in a long time. They show up to the show, and the crowd largely ignored them, periodically making fun of them. They wound up leaving the show and going down 2nd Street.

A crowd of 50 people attacked the 3 men.

Straight from Philly.com:

He said the crowd kicked and punched the Nazi-wannabes and used weapons that included beer bottles and cue balls, although postings on other online- message boards describe the attack as more tame.

The only information police have on the incident is that they responded to a report of a disturbance on 2nd Street at 11:33 p.m. No arrests, hospitalizations or assaults were reported, a police spokeswoman said.

That's pretty interesting to hear. Post and comments on Philebrity say the guys basically got their asses kicked and left with bloody noses. The photos and police reports say otherwise, and the entire thing amounted to people stealing their hats.

But as you can see from the comments, the sentiment is that they deserved what they got.

Did they?

The reports indicated that the men didn't do anything during or after the show other than to wear what they wanted. One account says they wore "camouflaged combat pants; woolen, WWII-era coats adorned with SS emblems and authentic Third Reich hats with Nazi insignias emblazoned atop them." Other than that, they were basically just going to a concert to have a good time. Once they leave the place, they're attacked by 50 people.

So, lets go over this again: 3 men were attacked for no reason by a crowd of 50 people simply for standing at 2nd and Chestnut.

In this country, everyone has the right to do and say whatever they want as long as they don't interfere with your rights. To be clear, no, you do not have the right to not be offended. If anything, it's a right to be allowed to be offended. If these guys wanted to stand around and look like SS troopers, they have every right in the world to do so. If you want to stand across the street from them, give them the finger, and tell them to fuck off, you have every right in the world to do that, too. You don't have the right to physically harm someone, though, unless they're actively are trying to kill you.

Isn't going around and beating people who look, act, or think differently than you a Nazi-esq thing to do?

Again, I don't like Neo-Nazi's that much. I also hate racist pricks in general. There's a group of black men who stand on Market Street every Saturday preaching hatred and racism, about how "white people are evil". Yet I'm not allowed to hurt them, no matter how much I want to. These guys are actively preaching hate, but all I can do is fight back by yelling at them and flipping them off. And, in the end, sometimes that's all you can do to stay a little ahead morally.

Photo courtesy of The Fifth Column.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

they have a right to wear what they want, BUT, they should know that leaving their house wearing that SS Luftwaffe clothing leads to getting your ass beat.
The same thing goes for the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas. When they picket military funerals, gay rights rallies and abortion clinics. They put up their hateful signs its like they are asking for people to hurl rocks at them... Maybe these two groups have a penchant for attention and punishment S&m Style.
-C

Mark Skull said...

You just said they have a right to wear what they want, but wearing it doesn't equal an ass-kicking. In the end, doing so is lowering yourself to their level and you become no better than the people you hate.

As much as I hate the Westboro Baptist bastards, they're still protected to say whatever they want without violence.

Anonymous said...

I'm not saying I would kick their ass... but other people would. I think its an attention thing... maybe these kids didnt get hugged enough as children, or they were spanked or whatever excuse fucked up people use these days lol. Some people are begging for an ass kicking.
The westboro baptist people have it comming to them, as biker clubs like the hells angels are targeting them. They deserve a lil tough love from the angels.

Michael Bilinski said...

I actually have some experience with this. I was co-promoter of a metal show about five years ago that was protested by a particular group because in their minds the event had Nazi affiliations. Not only was there no connection to any political/hate group, but one of the bands included three Jewish members and another was from South American. South American and Jewish Nazis? Clearly this group didn't bother doing any research.

Instead their members threatened the owner of the venue and assaulted an employee of his establishment. Sorry to be the one to break this to you but using widespread hatred of a particular group of people to justify your own violent actions puts you on the same level as those you are combating.

Finally the freedom we enjoy isn't a buffet you can pick and choose from. If even those you perceive as the worst of society aren't free to express their opinions than none of us are.

Anonymous said...

Nazis are good kissers.

Kristin Leigh Koefoed said...

Personally, I think people wearing arm bands should have beer bottles broken on their faces. And those guys on Market Street should have eggs thrown at them. They should be publicly humiliated every time that they enter the outside world so that they learn to shut the fuck up.

I know this is not what our country's supposed morals would say, but honestly with whats going on in Arizona... there is no America anymore. Why bother pretending? No one really has rights, whether they're in the constitution or not.

So if someone is a prick and you think you can take them, go for it. Just make sure you're fighting for good in that you want to end their hate... not that you hate them.

Mark Skull said...

I think that's the problem right there.

Despite the hardships we may face as a nation, despite what some people may do to strip away our rights and liberty, it is the duty of us, the American Citizens, to make sure we still stay true to those ideals, even in the face of extreme adversity.

The guardian of liberty and freedom is us.

You may want to publicly shame them, and that's fine, but hurting someone you don't agree with isn't right. What if someone felt they had every right in the world to hurt me because I made fun of George W Bush? Or because of my art?

I had to sit across from a Neo-Nazi on the subway about 3 days after I wrote this. I was angry to see him, and part of me wanted to hurt him. In the end, I realized that wouldn't accomplish anything and that his punishment was his own ignorance.

We should not lower ourselves to the level of our enemies in the purist of justice. If we do, we're no better. We've learned that from the "war on terror" alone.

Anonymous said...

there is a difference between government censorship and people or communities using force to protect themselves.
while 3 nazis might not be much right now, if they are allowed to organize they can become a seriouse threat. stopping them from being able to organize any sort of movement is self defence.

;"The only way our movement could have been stopped is if our opponents had consistently and forcefully driven us off the streets from the very beginning."–Adolf Hitler

Mark Skull said...

True, but again, this was a case where they weren't doing anything, just walking down the street.

What Hitler said is the problem with having a free and open society; the rats are allowed the same rights as lions, for better or worse.